Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airlines

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of United Airlines destinations

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of United Airlines destinations. Sunnya343 (talk) 04:04, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

A deletion review is taking place: Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 March 28. Sunnya343 (talk) 15:51, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Lists of airline destinations nominated for deletion

I have nominated 153 lists of airline destinations for deletion. Here is a link to the discussion page: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of British Airways destinations. Sunnya343 (talk) 16:01, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I have made a request for deletion review here: Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 April 3 § List of British Airways destinations. Sunnya343 (talk) 19:44, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

New RFC for Airline destinations tables

We need to do a new RFC for Airline destinations tables as the old one was from 2018. So we can find what the current Wikipedia community views are on them being included. CHCBOY (talk) 18:51, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I was thinking that we should wait a few months before doing the new RFC, just because we've had a lot of discussions on the topic recently. We can plan the RFC here and make sure it's worded properly. Sunnya343 (talk) 13:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Please, no. We just did this about six months ago and it was messy like it always is. I'm not sure why we need to keep having this RfC every year to always get the same result.... ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 13:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Actually that was for Airport specific tables not for the individual airline destinations tables. CHCBOY (talk) 18:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

AH, I see. I mixed up what you meant - my apologies. Ironically, I do support an RfC on this subject. I think it would be smart to plan a well worded RfC, but we may not want to wait too long as a lot of "List of XX Airline Destinations" articles have been showing up at AfD and may need to be recreated depending on the RfC results. ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 19:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Indeed very true. Are you any good at starting one? CHCBOY (talk) 05:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

It seems like people including me realized at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 April 3 that having more AFDs is a time sink, so I don't think there will be more. I started the last two AFDs and won't be doing any more for that reason.

This is arbitrary but how about doing the RFC in July (3 months after the last AFD)? Though we could start planning it whenever. Sunnya343 (talk) 13:56, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Seems ok to start in July. It's only 6 weeks away from now. CHCBOY (talk) 00:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

How would a new RFC be useful to improve the Airline destinations lists? Axisstroke (talk) 11:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Ryanair Page Setup

Notifying Cagliost with this. Hello, all. There’s been a back-and-forth the past few months over at Ryanair and I was hoping we could get the wider Wikipedia aviation community involved for feedback/consensus. Originally, and for a long while, the page had a single infobox (following the Template:Infobox airline format). Recently, a 2nd infobox was added for the parent company. I feel as though this isn’t really needed, although other editors disagree. Most people going to the page are most likely going to read about the airline, not the parent company. Additionally, plenty of other airlines have parent companies that we don’t have full infoboxes for. Airlines such as Allegiant Air, EasyJet, Avelo Air, etc. don’t have full infoboxes for parent companies. I feel this bloats the page and the information can be included in the article rather than taking up infobox space on a page for an airline, but I wanted to hear the thoughts of others. VenFlyer98 (talk) 00:00, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

In the case of Ryanair, the article deals with the group company and the airline Ryanair DAC. They are in the same article because the DAC predates the group, so it is more natural to deal with the company history in a single article.

Your proposal to combine the infoboxes causes some problems. It puts the Ryanair DAC CEO in the "key people" field, but ignores the CEOs of the other subsidiaries. It lists the subsidiaries in the same box as the Ryanair DAC callsign, which is misleading/incorrect.

"Most people going to the page are most likely going to read about the airline, not the parent company." This is a red herring, and, I think, false. Most people don't know the distinction, and those who do, may well want to read about both. In any case, you have been populating the infobox with group info rather than DAC info.

What do you think the advantages of a single infobox are? The claim that it "bloats" the page is false, since it's the same amount of information, just split (correctly) between two boxes. cagliost (talk) 00:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry Cagliost but I have to agree with VenFlyer98 on this one! It's unnecessarily clunky and inconsistent with the vast majority of other airline articles. If there is enough appropriately sourced history and detail relating specifically to the parent company that it needs an infobox, then it should probably be split off into a separate article. We have an article on Air France–KLM, the holding company that owns both Air France and KLM, but both airlines still have separate articles.

Whether a reader who looks up an airline is also interested in the parent company will depend on the individual and context. It is a poor rationale to deviate from a standard format. Besides, the Template:Infobox airline already has a field that allows us to wikilink to an article on a parent company. Per MOS:INFOBOX, less information contained in infoboxes generally serves the purpose of summarising the key facts most effectively. Using multiple infoboxes to try to clarify the relationship between two separate entities seems to go against the intent of the MOS. Dfadden (talk) 07:34, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the analogy with Air France-KLM works. Are you proposing to split the Ryanair article into separate articles for Ryanair DAC and Ryanair PLC? I don't think that's a good idea for the reason given above (makes company history more confusing to have separate articles), see also the discussion about it at Talk:Ryanair. cagliost (talk) 08:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

An alternative I considered was to use Infobox Company for the holding company. But this wasn't ideal because it lacked certain parameters like fleet size. I assert that using one infobox is *more* clunky because it forces us into either saying falsehoods (like Ryanair DAC has a fleet size of 500+, or Ryanair Group has a callsign), or leaving information out that is better in the infobox than in the article.

I suggest that, as a starting point, users proposing a single infobox should clarify whether they want it to be for Ryanair DAC, or Ryanair Group, and then we will know what information will have to be removed. cagliost (talk) 09:04, 22 May 2024 (UTC)